Category talk:Fan fiction by rating or warning
X, XX, XXX Ratings I used the above heading to note that the original x-rating for movies did not contain the stigma associated with current films in the United States. Right now our fan fiction category by rating only goes as high as NC-17. Some people consider NC-17 to specifically exclude descriptive sex or simulated sex acts. However, some specifically do not. To put it crudely (in a feeble attempt at humor over a delicate situation), people disagree whether "boobs and butts" should be put in the same category as "boobs and buts in contact" because the NC-17 rating from the Motion Picture Association of America (MPAA) does not include specific sexual acts in their description of the rating. So, what do we do? Here are my thoughts. First, we will not limit the content of this wiki to disallow pointers to the sexually charged fiction that has been written in the FK universe. We clearly have fan fiction that was written that included very specific adult content more than specifically listed in the wording of the MPAA description of an NC-17 rating. I want to make sure that authors of such fiction know that their work is welcome to be referenced here regardless of the rating. Second, the fiction with this kind of content is going to need a rating of some kind specifically described, or I suspect that we'll have a bunch of fans with their knickers in a bunch because they're either excluded or offended or some other vague reason that will drive me to drink because People Are Stupid. The "X-rating" is no longer assigned by the MPAA to American-produced films. Should we update the description of NC-17 fan fiction works with our own inclusion of descriptive sexual acts and be done with it? Or should we create a new category to include these works? If so, what do we call it? One option would be to call it "XXX," which is typically understood in America to be a work that includes sex acts. I'd personally prefer the XXX rating if a new category were to be created. But I'm okay with us expanding the NC-17 rating too, to accommodate this additional arena of writing. Thoughts?--Kodia 02:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC) :Interesting. I have one 18+ rated story in Season Five—which has obviously never been posted, and hence has no page on the wiki (yet). That's the Canadian television rating for adult viewing, and includes some degree of erotica or simulated sex (but no naked genitalia in sex scenes). For example, Queer as Folk was rated as 18+. However, violence and coarse language can also contribute to an 18+ rating (The Sopranos, The Shield). And yes, these shows can be shown on air: although QaF was a cable show here, the others weren't. :So would these be your NC-17? :Now film ratings are not quite the same thing, being done provincially. The Ontario film ratings go one step above 18+. That top (or bottom rating, depending on your moral POV) is R. :R stands for Restricted—to people 18 or older. (The 18+ rating, on the other hand, is a warning only; for films, it means that people under 18 have to be accompanied by an adult.) :Here are the guidelines for R rated films. ::Guidelines ::Language: No restriction. ::Violence: Visually explicit portrayals of violence, which may be characterized by extreme brutality, extreme bloodletting and extreme tissue damage. May include torture, horror, sexual violence. ::Nudity: Full frontal nudity in a sexual situation. ::Sexual Activity: Simulated sexual activity; limited instances of brief, non-violent explicit sexual activity. ::Horror: Horrific themes, incidents and images will have a more prolonged or graphic focus and greater frequency. ::Psychological Impact: Scenes and situations may cause extreme adverse psychological impact. Could involve intense and compelling terror, acts of degradation, threats of violence, and continuous acts of non-extreme violence. Such situations could be accompanied by coarse, abusive, and degrading dialogue. :Are you thinking of something with a higher rating than that? Because the highest rating used in Canada is A. Some provinces use that for adult sex videos. :If any of this helps. -- Greer Watson 03:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Oh! Yes. For the record. Of course we have to include all fan fiction! It never occurred to me that we might do otherwise. Equally "of course" we have to put good solid ratings and warnings on anything that might need it. (We could have kids reading this wiki.) -- Greer Watson 03:32, 8 February 2009 (UTC) ::The text may not mention it, but we actually have an R-rated category already. -- Greer Watson 03:37, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Well, R is lower than NC-17 in the MPAA rating system. So, would what you listed be part of NC17 in my mind? I'm not a good judge, having seen exactly one portion of one NC-17 rated movie (and my believe that most movie rating systems are fundamentally flawed). But I think based on your info provided about the episode, yes, it would have the possibility of the NC-17 rating. The definitions are slippery (hence my problem with them). Where do we list slash fiction? I'm going to guess that most of it will end up in NC-17, with a bit ending up in the R below it. Unless we specifically were to create a higher rating than NC-17. I think my pendulum is swinging back to leaving the rating system as it is and adding more description to the NC-17 listing. Here's exactly what the MPAA has to say about the ratings, the salient sections highlighted: For the NC-17 rating: :An NC-17 rated motion picture is one that, in the view of the Rating Board, most parents would consider patently too adult for their children 17 and under. No children will be admitted. NC-17 does not mean “obscene” or “pornographic” in the common or legal meaning of those words, and should not be construed as a negative judgment in any sense. The rating simply signals that the content is appropriate only for an adult audience. An NC-17 rating can be based on violence, sex, aberrational behavior, drug abuse or any other element that most parents would consider too strong and therefore off-limits for viewing by their children. The word here that helps, oddly, is "sex" in the highlighted passage. Note the difference from the R rating wording specifically: :An R-rated motion picture, in the view of the Rating Board, contains some adult material. An R-rated motion picture may include adult themes, adult activity, hard language, intense or persistent violence, sexually-oriented nudity, drug abuse or other elements, so that parents are counseled to take this rating very seriously. Children under 17 are not allowed to attend R-rated motion pictures unaccompanied by a parent or adult guardian. Parents are strongly urged to find out more about R-rated motion pictures in determining their suitability for their children. Generally, it is not appropriate for parents to bring their young children with them to R-rated motion pictures. Now these are somewhat more descriptive than the Wikipedia descriptions (and shame on me for not looking at MPAA first). But the wording here is important. Sex as opposed to sexually-oriented nudity is the big difference I see. If we go based on this, then I think the NC-17 rating may well be enough. Would your Season 5 story fit in the NC-17 rating then? Hmm. I think the answer is that you would need to decide or I would have to read it. I don't think I have enough info.--Kodia 13:29, 8 February 2009 (UTC) :One thing is clear by comparing the various definitions: the Canadian 18+ is much the same as the MPAA R rating, while the Canadian R rating is much the same as the MPAA NC-17 rating. Both the former may be seen by under-17/18s with adult accompaniment; both the latter are suited only for people over 17/18. :This means that we are going to have to be very careful to make it clear what we mean by the terms we use. We can't just rely on people knowing the MPAA system, which is foreign to those outside the US. (Like me.) There is obvious potential for misunderstanding here. :At the moment, the rating of the Season Five story is moot: there's little point in writing a page for it (and hence no need to assign it to a rating category) until it's actually posted. And that won't be until I finish Season Five. If ever. However, I can say that it has a moderate amount of coarse language (more than I would consider suitable for a 14+ show), and a simulated rape scene, but carefully staged to minimize the actual amount of flesh shown. Personally, I think it's 18+ by our standards, which would make it R by yours. I would also add a warning—but then I always do on my site, anyway, since every episode is preceded by a warning page (simulating the way TV shows are presented here). :As for slash: a lot depends on how you define it. There are those who consider a story to be slash if it mention or implies that a homosexual relationship exists (or even might exist) between two of the characters. This affords ample opportunity to have G and PG slash. -- Greer Watson 18:27, 8 February 2009 (UTC)